a new pew poll, showing mitt romney, jumping 4 points ahead. to pat goodell, a game changer, thank you for joining us, what do you make of this idea. do the debates matter or not in chances of someone winning the election? >> they do matter a great dial, this is biggest singleebate in helping a candidate since ronald reagan. it was one debate, in carter in '76 they proved people were comfortable to him becoming president. less:liz: said no more presidel debates. >> that is right, until 1976, i remember i went did the research, getting ready for 76 debate, i assume like everyone else legend was that kennedy won first debate big and moved polls a lot, he had not, he moved them a few points but he got what i call credibility threshold. the reason that romney is doing so well, not vote numbers alone. he did was, you could see it in cbs poll, their panel of uncommitted voters. liz: the guys and ladies in 40 40 40-yard line. >> yes, 30% said that romneycared about people about them at the beginning of the debate, by the end it was 53, almost doubles,